12/08/1983 - Minutes SPACE NEEDS III REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES - DECEMBER 8, 1983
TWALITY JR. HIGH SCHOOL
14650 SW 97th, TIGARD, OREGON
Chairman Walter Munhall called the meeting to order at 7:15 P.M. Madalyn Utz
was excused. Peggy Ober arrived at 7:35 P.M. All other Board members were
present: Susan Mueller, Dick Bendixsen, Jane Miller, Dorene Thomas.
Chairman Munhall read the extract of the Tigard City Council minutes of
November 21, 1983 establishing the Library Board as the committee to "review
all information to date as well as be free to consider new information."
Munhall promised that the Committee would be expeditious, fair and open.
Munhall requested audience input from those who had signed up. All declined
to speak until later in the meeting.
Munhall read a memorandum outlining his suggested process for the Committee to
follow and a tentative timetable for accepting and considering proposals,
meetings, consultation and final report. There was discussion by the Board.
Bendixsen moved that the timetable be accepted as stated in the memorandum.
Motion was seconded and passed.
J.B. Bishop, audience, questioned who the architect consultant would be and
how chosen. Board members indicated that the choice could be made prior to
the meeting of December 15, but Chairman would check with staff to see what
the process and alternatives are.
Anthony Maksym, audience, questioned authorship of the packet material that
was available to the Committee and audience. Munhall replied that it was the
work of Librarian Irene Ertell, Police Chief Bob Adams, himself and the City
Administrator. Maksym then asked if the Library Board was to be the
"exclusive" committee to review proposals and recommend to the City Council.
Munhall referred to the Council's action on November 21, 1983. Maksym
suggested that the Committee should accept any individual, who came forward
and offered their views or help, as a member of the Committee. He felt that
this was necessary if the Committee wished to maintain its credibility.
Bendixsen pointed out that under the process as outlined in paragraph l.b. (5)
that the Committee was prepared to incorporate any views and listen to anyone
who had an idea. He also questioned having an open-ended Committee. Maksym
questioned the Committee's authority to make final decision. Bendixsen
pointed out that the Board would only be making recommendations to the City
Council who would make the final decision.
City Councilor Ima Scott, audience, asked whether or not people were being
adequately informed regarding the City's space needs search, especially in
light of the December 15 deadline for applications. She asked Munhall about
his earlier statements regarding newspaper ads to publicize the search.
Munhall read from an ad that had been placed in the Oregonian and Tigard Times
on December 4. He also stated that he had received many personal inquiries as
well.
PAGE 1 - SPACE NEEDS III REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - DECEMBER 8, 1983
Munhall asked for criteria input from Police Chief Adams. Adams indicated
very strongly that any rental option for police should be short term and at a
conservative square footage. A lease option or bond would be appropriate for
long term, considering the costs of building a police facility and its
inflexible work environment. In answer to questions for Susan Mueller and
Bendixsen, Adams indicated that 10,000 square feet was less than the original
Space I plan for the Crow site, but adequate for present planning and current
needs. Adams, in answer to Munhall's question, told members that the present
facility is 1600 square feet.
Munhall asked Librarian Irene Ertell to review criteria for the library.
Ertell listed as primary concerns: siting - easily accessible by the public,
initial need of 9,000 to 10,000 square feet; 20-year needs are 18,000 square
feet; adequate heating and air conditioning; usable, interchangeable space;
secure books drop into building; security for persons and materials; adequate
parking. Ertell also expressed preference for library as part of a civic
center for sake of economy. In answer to Munhall's questions, Ertell cited
5,300 square feet as the present space. Following questions from Munhall and
Bendixsen, Ertell cited advantages to civic center as a "one stop" for
citizens with city and library business, enhanced communication and working
relationships with other department, sharing of such things as word
processing, security in nearness to police. Ertell assured Committee that
initial 10,000 square feet with room to expand to 20 years is adequate
planning.
Bishop queried Munhall as to when and how criteria would be set to satisfy
paragraph I.C. and l.d. of the process concerning submission of
recommendations to the City Council. Munhall answered that the work sheets in
the packet would help answer that questions.
Maksym asked the Committee to consider "tailoring" the space requests for
police and library in view of Oregon's diminishing economy, voter's previous
refusal of larger facilities and the competency of the police and library
staff in being able to operate in 10% and 25%, respectively, of their
projected 20-year needs.
Betsy Chick, audience, commented that there are limits to maintaining good
service provided by competent and well-trained staff in substandard conditions
which presently exist in police and library facilities. She warned against
"burn-out" and urbed a "middle road" between excessive space and appropriate
care of personnel.
There was discussion between Bishop, Maksym and Chief Adams regarding Tigard's
growth in spite of state-wide economic downturn. Bishop foresees continued
growth for Tigard; Maksym cited WPPS as example of miscalculation; Adams cited
Tigard's growth from 15,100 two years ago to today's 18,364.
The Committee reviewed the worksheet on square foot requirements and costs
related to the 5, 10, and 20-year projection in some detail. Members
questioned how sheets should be used by persons making proposals so that the
Committee could do comparisons. It was pointed out that the space
requirements on the form were taken from a 20-year space projection chart
adopted by the City. Munhall also pointed out that summary sheet would also
be a source of information on costs.
PAGE 2 - SPACE NEEDS III REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - DECEMBER 8, 1983
Maksym urged the Board to consider something other than Crow site, considering
it to be a "proven loser." He also likened consideration of the Crow site to
"flogging a dead horse" and "an exercise in futility."
Bibianne Scheckla, audience, expressed a desire to see other members of the
community on the Review Committee. She also felt that the reason for all the
prior failures of civic center elections reflected people's feeling that the
projects were too costly and that the Committee should consider the cost of
primary importance. Munhall asked if there was an amount she would suggest as
reasonable. Scheckla declined to name a dollar amount, saying that square
footage should be a primary concern, but that the Committee needed to come up
with a lesser cost for whatever they recommend. Bendixsen pointed out that
the Committee would have to work with whatever came in as proposals. Maksym
argued that the cost added by a bond proposal is measured by its impact with
other taxes in place. He also said that credibility of Committee would be
harmed by rehashing same proposals and that the Committee must show interest
in saving taxpayers money. Munhall assured that economics would be of prime
concern.
Ober questioned the present cots per $1000 for city space facilities.
Discussion ensued without an answer being available. Munhall referred the
question for staff to research.
Mueller questioned amount of space for city hall on the work sheet.
Discussion ensued regarding the 20-year needs. Munhall told Committee members
that they would use those figures and match them with proposals as best they
could. There was also more discussion regarding the summary sheet. It was
pointed out that other papers could be attached by those making proposals.
Councilor Scott asked whether or not the Committee would "share" all
information regarding the proposals with City Council. Munhall replied that
his understanding of the City Council motion appointing the Committee was that
the Committee would review all proposals publicly, but send only their
recommendations for Council's review and choice. Councilor Scott maintained
that Council should see all information received by the Committee. Munhall
countered that in that case there would be no need for a separate Committee.
Mike Marr, audience, supported Munhall's position that the Council delegated
the research to the Committee and asked them to bring several alternatives to
the Council. Bendixsen pointed out that Council could dismiss any
recommendations made by the Committee.
Scheckla recommended that persons making proposals should see materials in the
packets. Discussion centered on making sure that applicants received any
information necessary. Committee assured that any information requested would
certainly be provided in addition to summary and worksheet in the packet.
Maksym suggested copying all summary sheets for Council. Committee agreed to
consider suggestion. Bendixsen emphasized that the Committee was not trying
to keep secrets, but to do the job it was given. Munhall stated that the
Committee would do its study, make recommendations and submit with those
recommendations all proposals and materials to the Council for its own study.
Scheckla urged wide dissemination of information to garner support for any
proposal that the Committee recommends.
PAGE 3 - SPACE NEEDS III REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - DECEMBER 8, 1983
Final review of forms by the Committee brought out concerns regarding
applicants' responsibilities in filling out space needs cost form and
clarification of City Hall space needs. The Committee asked that staff review
applications and try to have information ready for their review at the next
meeting. Adams reiterated his concerns for short term/long term space in
relationship to rental or lease purchase. The Committee discussed altering
the form to address this issue and suggested putting in rental or lease/option
columns. Ober questioned whether citizens preferred short term solution over
long term. Discussion on what was available and practical was seen as
determining factors.
Bendixsen expressed concern that time for submitting applications was
inadequate and suggested that the time be extended from December 15 to
December 19. By consensus the Committee decided to extend deadline for
applications to December 19, 1983.
There was discussion regarding additional advertising to solicit proposals.
Suggestions were made by members of audience regarding places to post notices
but it was pointed out that time was short for extensive notification. Maksym
pointed out that local realtors would be aware of the information already.
Bendixsen moved that the worksheet and the information worksheet summary be
accepted with changes suggested. The motion was seconded and passed.
Gary Ott, audience, suggested that the Committee should establish other site
selection criteria besides cost. He felt that location should be a primary
concern. Munhall answered by exhibiting a proposal assessment form which the
Committee would be using to assess all factors relative to recommending a
site. The form will consider all aspects of a site, i.e. affordability,
adaptability, land area requirements, longevity, adaptability to municipal
services, efficiency, transportation, geographical center location, economic
impact, cultural impact and basic needs of city. Munhall acknowledged that
values placed on some categories would be subjective.
Munhall stated that Council's charge included a review of past proposals as
well as new. He reviewed the names of persons on original Civic Center (Space
Needs I) Committee. Munhall talked about the long hours and hard work of that
committee, commending them. He reviewed six properties that the committee had
considered and asked for questions. Betsy Chick said that she was aware of
credibility problem with the Space Needs I proposals for the Crow Site.
However, she stressed that the committee had been thorough, fair and unbiased
in considering all proposals. Munhall listed the Crow Site, the Air King and
Zoop's as options in the first study with 2 options on the Crow Site.
Maksym stated to the Committee that he was still concerned because it was a
"select committee" dictating an encumbrance on the taxpayers. He maintained
that the "decision was not put in the hands of the ordinary, average taxpayer"
and thus the Committee would suffer lack of credibility with the taxpayers of
Tigard. Committee members disputed this, with Ober citing the education and
average income of Tigard as reflective of the Committee.
Don Forrest, audience, made query as to how long there had been a Library
Board and whether any of the present members were on the original Board. The
answer was that the Board had been formed in 1972 and that none were original
members. He also questioned why the library had been placed in such a poor
PAGE 4 - SPACE NEEDS III REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - DECEMBER 8, 1983
facility. He recommended that police should be placed on land adequate to
meet expansion following a reasonable start. He also recommended a separate
library building, with renting city administration facility at present. He
also suggested that the Committee consider Sears site at McDonald and Pacific
Highway. Munhall related that he had checked out the site, but was told it
was not available.
Ober asked Forrest whether he felt decentralization or cost most important?
Forrest replied that even if it cost more, he "would go for a free standing
library."
Councilor Scott inquired regarding the Board's perusal of Fred Meyer trust
money. Munhall explained the difficulty of getting private trust money or
federal grant monies without matching funds or support. He also explained
that a former Board member had made inquiries into various foundations.
Scheckla asked about the availability of vacant buildings in the city, i.e.
Park 217. Munhall replied that the Park 217 buildings had been investigated
and were too large and/or too expensive.
Maksym, and Bendixsen discussed pros and cons of a civic center versus a free
standing library/community center with Maksym endorsing the latter. "Civic
center leaves me cold."
Munhall reviewed Space Needs II. He listed the choices as: the Zoop (Girod)
site, the Crow site, the old City Hall on Main, Air King site and Park 217.
The Crow site, Zoop's and Air King were the top contenders. Zoop's failed
because of lease encumbrances and Air King came in too high as a
build-to-suit. That had placed the Crow site on the ballot as measure #51 in
November. In answer to questions regarding cost of sites, Bishop furnished
information: cost of Air King site, 5.1 acres at $750,000; cost of Crow site,
34,000 square foot building on 5.1 acres (2 1/2 usable) at $1,250,000.
Maksym questioned why Committee had asked for another appraisal of Crow site
and whether this was meant to establish a price for the site. Committee
members felt that there was a need for updating the information and that
perhaps the appraisal had gone down. Bishop and Maksym disagreed, saying the
appraisal had probably gone up.
Ober, addressing the audience, asked what people felt was important to
consider in regard to costs and decentralization. Ober asked whether
decentralization was important even if it cost more? What would pass with
voters? Do we worry about costs or do we worry about where each is located?
Wyffels expressed view that by keeping City Hall out, "almost anything will
fly in this town." He supported rental for City Hall at present; take care of
police and library needs first and cost will be lower than the Crow site. He
felt that costs could be contained by surveying city-owned property and
finding better utilization for some of the land it has. Munhall urged Wyffels
to submit a proposal incorporating his claims. Munhall asked for a show of
hands in audience favoring decentralization and a central facility. The vote
was in favor of decentralization.
PAGE 5 - SPACE NEEDS III REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - DECEMBER 8, 1983
Maksym said that he felt effort should be made by the Library Board for a
separate location, "modest" space claim for 5 years with room for expansion.
He advocated a project to arouse civic pride. He also suggested that the
Library Board had been constrained by the City on the basis of economics, but
he felt that there was a "better shot" for just the separate police and
separate library facilities.
Gary Ott, audience expressed his concern about location of the library,
preferring a downtown location rather than being on the edge of town or in the
middle of an industrial park.
Bishop maintained that decentralization would not necessarily cost more if
""you start with what you own," i.e. present police site (recommending also the
acquisition of land parcel between police and public works) and start small.
Munhall quoted city policy 7.10.1 which recommends that local government and
administration facilities should remain centralized in the central business
district, voted on unanimously by the present City Council. Discussion also
continued on decentralization versus centralization, with Mueller emphasizing
Committee's role to recommend to Council, not decide the issue.
Ransome Boyce, audience, suggested that the "quantum leaps" in the space
proposed for various departments was difficult for the public to understand.
He suggested a "plan expansion concept," starting small to reduce initial
costs.
Some more discussion on decentralized rather than centralized ensued, with
Mueller saying that the committee is able to recommend only. However, one of
its recommendations would be for decentralized.
Munhall urged people to "spread the word." In answer to a questions, Munhall
announced that the Committee would deliberate in open meeting.
Meeting adjourned at 9:20 P.M.
NOTE: The timetable was later amended to accommodate the December 19 deadline
for applications. The December 15 meeting was moved to December 22.
(IE:pm/1115A)
Irene E. Ertell
PAGE 6 - SPACE NEEDS III REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - DECEMBER 8, 1983