City Council Packet - 02/01/1963 NEW
NNW
T I G A R 0 C I T Y C O U JET C I L,
MINUTES OF R1;ETING, FEP,P,U MY 1ST, 1963.
]nt- -T' F A-, TJ")—, Counc r hien Kaz-:L.F. cIanneman.,-
I r zinc i.s ) Conner, E l ,v,l, ' t3 is l ann; T7:)rman E.
1n,n ;nn', Civv Sui er intFn.•_nt C. R. <n�c!,
Attorne v F. A. Anne.son
Meet r.nr c al lec? t o.r, er 1,`, Ria, ,: T7o, a a L 7:30 fi.
-
Mavor Woodard called fni r.eac' n r-,' tho. Iii.n;,+,cy , �. t:ie . eet?nc,
of Januar, 20th, 1963, Iiia, :-cT ; ie�n roa l. Y'l", ,r
calloc1 fo; correction„ n?' of pec+-'bns to -le Finutes.
Councilman Johnson: Pace 1, filth r.ai o. al-:., arc el
clarify what swimming p 61 we were 'arinc; aJ>out, `1 caoxrlt
suc�cestV.7here we state tc "C,-)unctlnan the: ...11.,ce1 -
swimmingr pool" shoulc be in,sert�d,
Councilman Hanneman: - on rage the sec_ gin,', pa.rac�l ap i fr•-;rr,
file bottom, the large paranral '.z, fo,,_th line "the 1LG1
Building Code" i.nser "1961 Uniform Bu:-ldinq Coc+e".
Councilman Eerer+ann: Ac..,. ? "Counc'.l he 'tzar ec.on,7ed ;.he
motion bv Councilman IIannenan with res ec t to '--.ie refune
to the Tioard Shopping Plaza.
Mayor Wooclard If t}le*'e are rin furt-rn:r cowrections `.he
Di.inutes stand approve,: ,Jr t t-,a corrections.
Mayor woo(4ard: It: is now 2:00 P. M. < we now br ;nc bororo
the Council the ?natter c-` the accer t_ance o` tne.
Planninc; an5 ZonincC.os=les_ Is -ieie anyone in t.i_. ,l.r7icnco
chat woul<' J._;,e {o srea.. on [:i ^e matLers
R•;r. KJ.ocicc In referenc to this, I wave son::^.t.rznr. I ezoul<+
like tc have cla-rr._ ie6 .heve in rec;aid the .iirnn vole` in
Washington Count;, ,,rhz_t ",fill do in :era C to pluliu inr i°
Councilman Hanneman: The Uniform Bu IJUng Code states. if a
State law is In e;�is+encc, c:717,t_ .i.t s(7 we [lave n^c�-)4ce.
Mr. Klock: Now I hai• a ruling, .from'1 ttoine• PY,2,1 Ancerson in
regard to tiro Pl.umbinc'Couee;,,,s - as been ;.n t.le :-ast"the
Ply%nine CoOc :.n-Counties or Cities 'rias to 'be accor6i_no to
State regLii-rements. Accordzncr to L;:. Anderson we can%change
this in retard to tine use of plastic r.ipes for waste 1'ncs.
A lot cif States are using it,now. I helie�.e, the 7State;^f
Washi.nctor and Itthin; we si;ould, he'a 1._ttle , aesitant in
"jumping on the 'Band w:ic�on" :o Hass`anti say we a:re coi:nc• to
follnw "the State_Flurrbing Co-'c. This is _nar'eui_iate;` if the
product is; just as rood, I think it is, it- in, a io, cl e .i:cr
and faster`. I co nil; think we shoul. a6c'le° ou_'sc1vc
.•a
with an ordinance which_woulc' prevent such a chance. All iec-�
Chemical Corporation; E. I. duPnnt eeVamours S Co. Inc, are
majeir suppliers, they will give you all tie confirmed ,iata
and they will he;glarl to, on the whole picture. It would
seem to me it would be wise to listen to them prior to
adoption.
2-1-63— Page 1.
mayor Woodar0 In recar.:', to this Plastic Tripe, i.: •ao"310 be
tin to us to loot: into the mat t(>x an,' it woule' be up to tnn
Council to decide, w:ietncar ey want to :o into i-- an- use
or. finO, Objections an'.-1 turn Lit. clown.
Nr. Klockcal. we ..[in point: i iJL, 1)a J.c L,,I a.,. I
am vitally concernec on this- I am sittinon Ithe Lt ' or a
large job, tnev are nolninri Lit up, _'I.t Is ,-':o 1250.`)0 Less
for apartments o* residences.
Mayor Woodard: I might make a suc;cfcstion, that our clerk
write these people and get w1nat information wo can froio them
SO. we can study it.
Dir. Heppner; I want to quest.:ion one thinq,. fot m..own'. infor-
mation; can you say that we are usig na State r-lu0)i.nq Code
and yet administer ic. as we see fit. would we have [:haL
privilege? A pipe not perrni.iaed by State Code yet was
picked up from a manufacttirer, would we have the privilege
of putting it in?
Mayor Woodard: in your builiinc
Mr. Heppner: No, an Incorporated City, would they have
the jurisdiction to reject the job'
Mayor Woodard: I imagine the State would permit it if we
would be allowed to inspect it.
Mr. Heppner: If they refused it could we go ahead?
Mr. Klock: I had previously correspondedwith the State
on-Plumbing- and Electrical Codes and know who to contact.
Mayor Woodard: Who has the map of the City of Tigard from
which:we take prints. I have`a map of the City showing;where
the sewer lines are, would there be a possibility to have
that put into that map; because I have a request from a
gentleman sitting here and, also Mrs. Johnson, they are willing
to pay for the printing of these maps and we would probably
have;use too for some of them.
Mr. Heppner: I would be willing to pay for one hundre''or. so
showing the sewer and water mains.
Mayor Woodard: The water goes so far out, we don't have
those lines'. I would like to know what they are goinato
cost for a-hundred, or per hundred copies.
Mr. I3eppner: I had a price of '150 maps for $100.00, we would
include a 'little advertising I<would'want on them'. I;had in
mind not making it to scale.
Councilman Hanneman discussed with Mayor Woodard and ^Fr: Heppner
the difficulties in making the maps too small as well as stating
it might be pretty expensive to have the type maps required to
show the utilities. Councilman Johnson suggested there is
no map in existence that shows storm sewers, only sanitary sewers.
Mayor Woodard stated there is no map of the storm sewers
unless the County would have it.
Mr. Heppner' asked cif there was a map;showing the designated
zoning as it is now and Councilman Hanneman advised there was
one in the City Office, one in his office and one with the
Attorney and Mr. Heppner could get the information if he so
Page 2
desired.
The question was raised as to "spot" coning and D'r. Her."pner was
advised by Councilman_ Hanneman "yes, we will certa.iniv acteirpt
to keep away from 'spot' .zonino
Dir.. Nicoli; on these Codes.; what are you going; to do for
nspectors? is this plumbing the whole thing, ..ill this
inspector know building so we get a good job that will be
recognized by people that come to buy houses, that it has
been inspected by a City Inspector who will have some back-
ground, they will know it is a good, reliable job.
Councilman Hanneman: The only way to make this workable is
to have a competent inspector. I^?e have not selected or retained
an inspector yet; we have been using the County Inspector;
I do not favorcontinuance of that,procedure. I would rather
have a person here in the City, with City interests, the
public's interests and understanding, the City laws and paid
by the City, in order fcr him to have someone to answer to.
Mr. Nicoli: I believe if you have an inspector there are
no more questions asked, if the house is constructed properly.
Councilman Hanneman: It is going ,to be a matter of practical
application and investigation for the common good of all.
There was some discussion by Mr. Klock about electrical work
and inspection and the dangers of. .improper loads and stress
on buildings.
Councilman_Hanneman: You are not only entitled to it but
the City isentitledto it. Bear,this in mind, when something
is done wrong it may mean injury or loss of life, you wouldn't
want to live with it. - However,' we have a budget that is not
adequate to hire the best professional on the job and it may
be years until we do. I think you and -I and-whoever:is the
inspector, will have to cooperate in not trying to conceal or
close our eyes.
Councilman Johnson: I was wondering; I had a 220 line put '
in ;my place, Put in by Mr. Frahler. Two days :after he put '
it in the State Electrical Inspector came by and inspected it.
Would it be possible, inasmuch as we do not have money enough
to keep a" constant inspector who would be structural, plumbing
and electrical inspectors in the city, would it be possible
for us to make some type of a deal with the C@unty or with the
State so that we could on a fee basis pay these men to come
in and do` the inspection and certainly neither L"_r. Klock nor
Mr. Nicoli would feel any objection because I think inasmuch
as they are employed by the 'State for areas that are no Cities,
they should be competent.
There was some discussion with respect to the County Building
4 Inspector and Dor. Bissett stated "He is on salary from the
County. I am"not sure, but I think, if perhaps, if the
Council wanted to continue and feel that the people who were
doing the; inspecting were responsible to the City, I 'think you
could probably make an arrancrement to reimburse the County
based on the amount of inspection, which is easily uetermined.
2-1-63 - Page 3.
Fees are based on square feet of inspection, the City might:
reimburse him on the basis of the square- feet'i.nspectacl.
Councilman Ilanneman: If tie were r_spo zs_ble to -he City T-here
might be a consiraerabla chance in t',,� (tual ity oS .inspection.
V,avor vlooOar.3: Irou!Ctt make t i- su.c,-ctl nn, t i t, Icr-)t c
Cc,uric!Aman Hanneman is in chars_e of I lanni nc ane; 3oninc, Co,7.ez,
he will be sure ..o see chat we iii-ll have insix--ctors t<> do
these jobs ane?. there will not: J;e any coral-.la ints.
Councilman Tlanneinan: I am releasee, _o heal that you -are
concerned abant the mattes-; it is m5 pri-.ie concern. Tlie Co'71e
is worth no6hin; without y oper insj ec ion �nea since tie
City's welfare is o some c:xte nt_, my ;u ,i s fiction on Llan
checking ant inspection, I _.o fool that responsJbilrt-, is
wort', watching. On the Zoning Cote, as we rl.i,scusser3 b iefl,'
last Monday nigtht, I- would like to have it in the record that
'.one R-7 will be ctesic=natcci R-5 inasinuch a-7, we have changed
the minimum lot area from 7,000 sauaie feet to 5,000 square
feet and we have added to that section the following words
"where City sewer connection is available". The sect:i_on in
it's entirety "the' n:inirmuu lot area shall be 5,000 square
feetlot area where Citv sewer connection is available Then
as an addendum following that, adding section 703-1.-1, "Where
City sewer connection is not available and a septic tank anCi
drain field is to be used, the minimum lot area shall be
15,000 square feet". "
If there are no further questions, I would like to make
a motion that the,Council accept the Resolution to adopt the
City of. Tigard'Zoning,Code and the Uniform Building Code 1961
Edition, as the City of Tigard's Building Code and tha�
Attorney Anderson be directed to draw up the enactincr ordinance
for each."
Motion seconded. by Councilman Cooper.
Mayor Woodard: Are there any questions on the motion?
Councilman Johnson: Can this Building Code be amended.
Councilman Iianneman: Yes sir.
Councilman Johnson: In other words', could someone by coming
in front of this Council, with particular problems, get a
variance from this Code?
Councilman Hanneman: Not directly, but 'someone coming to
this Council would be the beciinning of the movement for a
change in the Code.
Councilman Johnson: That person could not get a change.
Councilman Hanneman: He can instigate the beginning.
Councilman Johnson: Can we vary the Code?
Councilman Hanneman: No, but we have representation with
the Code Committee; the Engineers' ,Committee and the Conference
Committee here in Portland and we are entitled to a voice on
those committees.
BAN
EM
2-1-63 - Page 4.
4
T•'.r. Rlock: If engineers, architects anc' suppliers can sho::y
that this procduct is notte.r., cheaper, Master, lone er lasting
and everything, the only tray it can be chanced is b•_y someone
else'?
Councilman Hanneman: The Flu,nb.inc_ anci plectriral- Code are
entirely separate.
Mr. ,uicoli: You 'Have your lot 50 foot front; somebody had
feet or a9 feet, can they bring that up'
Councilman Hanneman: if they meet all other conditions thev
.,o,l d be z pret ,, Surc cinc'l ''at ld
approval to get a variance to the code.
The Building Code iefincs set hachz; which a c, less
stringent than our Zonina Code and as lone- as they are, I am
willing to accept them that way. In adopting both of these
I have to be sure there is no conflict.
Dir. Mock: Does this code have an 'as or equal factor",
that means the load strenci;h but coesn't spec jiy ^ x 12. or
equal?
Councilman Hanneman: I hope I understood you correctly;
they state the allocable strains, the Code does not pick
it for you. Any types they specify, types of construction,
plaster or wet shingles,` tlev do not name manufacturers or
to that extent or detail, in other words, the Building
" Department has the privilege of saving, certainly we can
use .this other manufacturer at a`lower figure or contract
at a lower ;:ic_Ture, provided the manufacturer's guarantee
is acceptable and meets the Code requirements,
At -this point there was some discussion between mr. IQocic
and Councilman Hanneman regarding load ,dimensions.
Councilman Johnson questioned when the ordinance would be
effective and Mayor Woodardreplied 1130 days after the
passage of the Ordinance".
Councilman Johnson spoke about inspection for fire hazard
and Councilman Hanneman replied there would be such an
inspection , "_I would certainly tt}ink if;the City were
enforcing the Uniform Building Code; it is based primarily,=
an fire protection. The County is not under the Uniform
Building Code.,, "With regard to fire measures, we will
cover everything that these men have talked about, which seems
to;me is Proper, I am sure there will be no trouble in
putting this in".
Mr. Heppner raised the question about a lot size 14,680 square
feet and Councilman Hanneman replied "I believe that would
be :the same condition as a 49 foot frontage. I would jucge
this a more just way of tatting than merely a square foot way.
Mr. Nicoli raised the question as to who would set the values
to determine the building permit fee and Councilman Hanneman
said "I will say that we will arrive at a method of determining
that." Mr. ,,Klock stated the ultimate price on this 'building
should not be disclosed.
2-1•-63 -, Page 5.
IN In
I•lavo7-,
s I understand it, when a builcing permit
is requested you name your price that oinc to '-r-)e paiC. in.
The Coun'--y sends an appraiser an; fray. You can charm_ our
plans while build_nc
Councilman Hanneman: There is an ac: .,tional fee if anv change
is made in construction.
There was further discussion'between Mr. Flock, I•r. Uicoli.,
Mayor Woodarc, and Councilman Hanneman with resrect to values
placed on properties under construction at the time of the
application for building permits.
After this discussion M or Woodard sta&C., "if there are no
further questions, there is a motion before Council and I will
-call for the vote on the notion
The motion made by Councilman Hanneman and seconded by Council-
man Cooper, to accept the Resolution to adopt the City of Tigard
Zoning Code and the Uniform Buildinc,. Code 1961 Edition, was
passed with one dissenting vote being that of Councilman
Johnson.
Mayor Woodard; I would, like to inform Councilman Johnson
that District Road number 60 has turned over to the City
through the County Treasurer $1;550.86 to the road Fund.
Also we .received liquor license fees from the. State in .the.
sum of $498.58. Today we also received $1,100.02 from the
West Coast Telephone Company for franchise fees.
I believe while you gentlemen are,here I will read the
letter-I have •,mitten to 'Nalley's. Council agreed to let
me answer then. (Reading letter) We are going to restrict
them to the contract.
I also have taken up with the Lighting District number
1, District Chairman Mr. Curtis Tigard, the problem of func's
(Reading Tetter to Mr. :Tigard) .
Councilman Cooper: I 'would 'like to re-state my stand that
not :one penny of the City's Funds be spent- to pay this bill;`
Lighting District number 1 should. secure the money the same
as Lighting District number 2.
Payor Woodard: The contract states we are not liable for
,any bills -for the Lighting District number 1.
Mr. Klock, Jr., spoke about the plan checking fees and
Councilman Hanneman advised "this applies primarily to the
service rendered by the Building Code Conference in Los
Angeles who have a staff of engineers -who will checc a
set :of plans, they -rill check it for one half of the building
permit fee: The`question was raised whether all plans would'
be submitted to them and Councilman Hanneman stated "only
if it is not within the capability of this City to check it.
The `questionwas raised as to residential and properties such
as the Knauss building;and Councilman Ranneman stated; "In
general most of those could be handled 'here. I hav+een
checking these for about $15500 a month _nay, nights and
Sundays.
Mr. SBissett: Buildings of a substantial nature, if you make
2-1-63 - Page 6.
`tlle ,.n 1nU1 cran .l_nr of rernij,ts, .le +.atC-; law is
haunt- as an F 1 t o n, n t L a n ,1zn
n e c<-s f .,,
to .>i_snZtura
of Z111 z .,._Leet or Oz
Council an Hallne.ioan:
Cart s nn, o a r a
Lent,
7e t; 1,Lcct or ei r )nee?s is _ j.n
pre ludo this one_ ha]x o t j,c
u. nr, -
c cc..nc c;-ion 30' e ri, fit ,o „va Elan, s t a
force(" to senc: to Lo lnceles ✓Dole. i e
even _at case coi.ies in.
Tlie_e was at tii s Point con ic?erable discussion alx+ut ,e.io
responsiblC -O errC)) -trcl ,L:C_{: C]' o is
.fps; Ir. Bzssatt, C engineentere. into
ounc_l,,ian Isnn_iian alic r c ,rs, ifloc,, and,
Nicoli.
There was further oiscussion .borrL Lzn)i
question wised b p.;- p eas �n ,. to a
r z Nicol?., Councilman Ianner.an replica?;
"Tile County would cha ge you say 57.0:00
house; I cruestion whether ,.pie i , or a ,-,20,000.,,)o
nspec Lion .;s %-tort,,,, :20.00.
Sire charge $60.00, ii' our ins ,ections are not t,,ortii $Ei0.00
thenoyrou have the right to complain loudly. If the City
is/going to function ecce_,_?znc 'to the lawsitmakes, then
they won't be worth tr
anything. We ot
. This Code pr � � to have money.• somewhere.
provides for continuous inspection where necessary,
Mr. Klock: We have to keep tilese fiqures clown, othenoise
'
we arc going to crive everythinc
J array.
Mayor Woodard: In Beaverton they are bilild.inc t:iis Frec?
Meyer shopping center and: they are
charging $6.00 for the
first thousand dollars on the cost of the building, $3,00
a thousand for the ne}:t $15,000.00; $2,50 a thousand for the
ne:;t $25,000.00; $2.00 a thousand for the next y25,000.00;
1.50 a thousand for the next $2.5,000.00 and $1`.00 a thousand
for the balance, that sounds like an awful, lot :of money too.
Mr. Klock Jr. raised the question that the contractors were
not setting the values'.
Councilman Hanneman: I haven't changed one yet. To sa_v
that vie are going to be, as the Tigard T;_n.es would say,
"hard-nosed" about this, they are wrong. You sav the
Privilege is here, what about any law that is written, doesn't
that give the enforcing agency the privileg
if it doesn't Hien it e of;enforcing it
is not a complete law.
Councilman Bergman': You said Beaverton was,under this Code, '
as well as Portland, how can Beaverton change it.
Mayor Woodard: Beaverton hasn't changed it, it is the same
as"this code.
Councilman Bergmann: Who says ;ve can't adopt it in part.
There followed much discussion on the question of building
permits and inspectors,entered into by Messrs. Klock, Mayor
Woodard and Mr. Heppnerbas well as Councilmen HannemanandBergmann.)
2-1-63 - Page 7.
Mr 'Nicoli: On your rates, are they set now; there is no
.vay of changing them without csoing back to this hos Angeles
head.
Councilman Hanneman: I •;ill find out whether or not tiley car.
be adjusted below the level'-legally.
BSr.' Nicoli: I don't know about Beaverton or P0rt7gnA.
f Councilman Hanneman: I will chec}; with the Conference.
Mayor Vloodard: If there is no further business I will now
entertain a motion for adjournment.
Motion by Councilman Cooper to adjourn, seconded by Councilman
Bergmann and unanimously approved by Council.
Adjournment taken at 10:05 P. M.
Respec,tiully submitted:
CITY RECORD
ATTES�` r '
MAYOR.
2-1-63 - Page 8.,'